Rebalance towards stealth and AI Squid

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funez1
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Rebalance towards stealth and AI Squid

Postby funez1 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:45 am

I'm curious to know why the stealth buff on all visibility was necessary. I have seen level 21 programs go very far inside a network. And AI Squid is obsolete when it can be easily avoided

Luminaar
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Re: Rebalance towards stealth and AI Squid

Postby Luminaar » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:42 pm

funez1 wrote:I'm curious to know why the stealth buff on all visibility was necessary. I have seen level 21 programs go very far inside a network. And AI Squid is obsolete when it can be easily avoided
Stealth programs/Scanner sensitivity stats haven't changed since release as far as I'm aware.

There has been a minor stealth defense "buff" in the form of the Squid AI, although this buff is pretty marginal - as you mentioned - due to the Squid being avoidable for the most part, and the "buff" being "the additional time a player has to wait for the Squid to pass."

As for deep stealthing, stealthers hacking networks between Core Levels 6 and 8 have an easier time due to the number of Code Gates and Scanners that are available. From Core 9 onwards however, networks have the tools available to prevent deep stealth intrusions from equal Core Level attackers, even if the player has the highest level stealth programs for their Core/Evolver Level.
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funez1
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Re: Rebalance towards stealth and AI Squid

Postby funez1 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:08 pm

I remember read in on the wiki. That the visibility of all stealth programs were reduced. I'm not sure if its still there. But I'm sure I read the trivia about what the game has been improved on. Also even with 5 gates. With level 21 scanner. Its still possible to get through 8 nodes deep while wraithing 4 potential nodes.
I was hoping there would be a rebalance towards some of the programs Since They become a bit OP. The shocker at max stuns for 13 seconds. Which is a very long time. And more than enough to take out nodes and capture them. The hawk AI can be countered but not that big of a problem. The cost of ice wall is a bit excessive. And the XP of certain nodes is too much compared to what it should be..for example guardians

Luminaar
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Re: Rebalance towards stealth and AI Squid

Postby Luminaar » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:41 pm

I can't say I remember that information on the wiki, but as my edit count is over 9000 (literally), there'll always be something I've forgotten. xD A network facing max level stealth programs needs the maximum number of gates in the direct path of an attacker to prevent being accessed past node 6.

There's certainly the potential for adjustments in the future, but hopefully there'll be more buffs than nerfs. :D
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funez1
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Re: Rebalance towards stealth and AI Squid

Postby funez1 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:23 am

Also could there be a buff to black ice. Like a .5 reduction time and a 10 percent buff towards strength. It will attack slightly faster but maintain its strength before the patch. Its just very slow. And it shoulf get buff towards its firewall if its one of the tankiest security nodes. Its no big difference from a turret at max.

Luminaar
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Re: Rebalance towards stealth and AI Squid

Postby Luminaar » Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:27 pm

While there's a substantial Strength difference between the nodes at higher levels, it takes quite a while to be noticeable.

Improving the Black ICE's functionality has been a popular topic, and there's been some fun improvements suggested, such as stat improvements, making it Shocker proof, having the Black ICE shots stun for a second and reducing the attack priority so it can attack more freely, just to name a few!
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TheLurkingRage
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Re: Rebalance towards stealth and AI Squid

Postby TheLurkingRage » Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:59 pm

funez1 wrote:I remember read in on the wiki. That the visibility of all stealth programs were reduced. I'm not sure if its still there. But I'm sure I read the trivia about what the game has been improved on.
Could you be referring to the update patch notes I leaked? Are you worried about players portaling on the Code Gate bypassing the filter with little visibility taken? If so, don't worry, turns out I leaked a version of the game that was just being tested and doesn't have a planned release date. Turns out players don't want the Wraith gone in exchange for the Portal receiving this buff ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
funez1 wrote:Also even with 5 gates. With level 21 scanner. Its still possible to get through 8 nodes deep while wraithing 4 potential nodes.

That's what the Squid is supposed to counter. Stealth is reliant on precise calculations. If the hacker takes too long to click on a program it may cost them too much visibility to get it done right. The Squid is supposed to help counter that by creating instances at random where the player will have been stopped at the second Code Gate instead of wraithing almost all of them. It helps to keep Stealth viable while also being terrible to rely on if the network layout makes good use of the Squid. One way to make it better would be to make it prioritize certain nodes first to give us some more control over it to counter stealth, but that would also mean it would be countered easier by the hacker if they knew how it works, which is why it's the way it is right now. It's like encryption security. If the hacker knows how to decrypt it, the encryption is pointless. Squid is useful enough as is, being a useless level 1 choke point node that on occasion is useful to counter stealth.

Luminaar wrote:xD A network facing max level stealth programs needs the maximum number of gates in the direct path of an attacker to prevent being accessed past node 6.

It's still more desirable to counter lower level stealth (level 10>) by placing the 1st Code Gate farther away. Sacrificing all Gates up front to counter max stealth also weakens you severely against even level 1 stealth, so it's like a double edged sword. I'd rather get penetrated deeper by a max stealther than get my defences weakened by a lowly one. Thanks to my layout, there's times when the Squid stops max stealth from wraithing my 3rd Code Gate, so I prefer to take my chances.

funez1 wrote:I was hoping there would be a rebalance towards some of the programs Since They become a bit OP. The shocker at max stuns for 13 seconds. Which is a very long time. And more than enough to take out nodes and capture them. The hawk AI can be countered but not that big of a problem. The cost of ice wall is a bit excessive. And the XP of certain nodes is too much compared to what it should be..for example guardians

The Shocker already got nerfed. I debated passionately against nerfing its effect duration time again (used to be 16 seconds) and instead put forward the idea to lock the program once used until the effect runs out so that it can only be active on one node at a time which helps counter the Shocker spam problem. Instead they added the Hawk to counter it, but it rendered it completely useless. Now I want it buffed or repurposed somehow. There's no reason to use a Shocker now, except on long abandoned networks where there is no Hawk. It's just like the Maniac now. Very situational and a waste of space on my inventory.
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funez1
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Re: Rebalance towards stealth and AI Squid

Postby funez1 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:10 am

Shocker isnt totally useless. I still use it on many networks to avoid having to take constant high DPS. Having a ton of ice walls high leveled. Is very expensive. And I mean. Really expensive. I dont see why the shocker would need a buff. And again. A high enough leveled ice wall will still hold until your protector is in place. It isnt useless. And it isnt just for non hawk network. The developers wouldnt implement new content that would cause huge disadvantages to other programs. Now the beetle can be a pain

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Re: Rebalance towards stealth and AI Squid

Postby TheLurkingRage » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:21 am

Luminaar wrote:Stealth programs/Scanner sensitivity stats haven't changed since release as far as I'm aware.

I overlooked this at first, but what about the 20 vis/s stat that was added to the Core? Even tho the Core doesn't actually do any scanning. It's always been passive and it's not technically a buff, but it is a stat that was added, so... Unless I'm remembering things incorrectly and there previously wasn't a 20 vis/s detection? Since that one day I found out that I somehow got transferred to a parallel universe where Rams 21 don't 1 shot level 14 and under Code Gates, anything is possible. Maybe in this parallel universe we'll get an update this year too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Luminaar
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Re: Rebalance towards stealth and AI Squid

Postby Luminaar » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:33 pm

TheLurkingRage wrote:
Luminaar wrote:Stealth programs/Scanner sensitivity stats haven't changed since release as far as I'm aware.
I overlooked this at first, but what about the 20 vis/s stat that was added to the Core?
It has always existed as far as I know, as without it, players could drop a single Access on a netCon then lock a player out of their network indefinitely due to it being "currently under attack" - without the 20/s, the visibility timer wouldn't progress. :D

It'd also make Pro Tip #1 too powerful. ;)
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