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Experience Points

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:22 am
by AnAngryNun
When a player "starts" an upgrade, or new program evolve, the experience points are immediately applied to network ranking/level. Why?

That is crazy.

They should be applied when the upgrade, or evolve, is completed. Since these upgrades or evolves can take a day or 2, then your network "rank" level is false and the Hacker search for match ups will expose you to a higher player skills.

Re: Experience Points

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:27 am
by TheLurkingRage
Indeed. We have complained about this for ages by now it seems and TA has already taken note of that. Don't take my word for it, but perhaps they're going to make it so you only gain the xp once the upgrade is finished in a future update... I hope anyway.

Re: Experience Points

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:40 am
by Luminaar
AnAngryNun wrote:When a player "starts" an upgrade, or new program evolve, the experience points are immediately applied to network ranking/level. Why?
TheLurkingRage wrote:Indeed. We have complained about this for ages by now it seems and TA has already taken note of that.
This was one of the first things I asked about when given the chance :P The team are aware that it's not ideal, but it's a low-priority fix given that it doesn't have a huge negative effect on gameplay, or create unfairness/imbalance since everyone's in the same boat.

Re: Experience Points

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:15 am
by TheLurkingRage
Luminaar wrote:The team are aware that it's not ideal, but it's a low-priority fix.
Thanks for the confirmation, now what's the word on xp inflation given that they're both player level related issues?

Re: Experience Points

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:01 am
by Anraton
Something else about experience points...
Deleting a node doesn't affect your gained experience/level... cause of that .. doing reconstruction is ... well raising the experience/level

While I don't want to be degraded ... I think it would be a good idea, to only get raising experience again, if the new network catched up with my actuall experience gained.

The current system is punishing doing mistakes or changing mind about how a "good network" should look like.

Re: Experience Points

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:32 pm
by Luminaar
TheLurkingRage wrote:Thanks, now what's the word on xp inflation given that they're both player level related issues?
The official word is "This is a huge issue and very complicated to fix from a both a design and production point of view. We understand that this will need resolving, but as of right now, there is no suitable solution."

My additional input from a Lumi-point-of-view is that, while I don't know the specifics involved, I can personally assure you that if it were just as simple as adding "if deleted:reduce experience", it would have been done already. :P
Anraton wrote:Deleting a node doesn't affect your gained experience/level... While I don't want to be degraded
Imma stop you right there - and say thank you! The team already knew that 100% of players don't want to be reduced in level. It's nice to see a written quote from someone confirming that.
Anraton wrote:... I think it would be a good idea, to only get raising experience again, if the new network catched up with my actuall experience gained.
I don't know how technically possible this is, but the idea is sound, and I'll add/amend someone on the suggestions list regarding that.

I can say from a previous chat, that the intention is not to punish people for mistakes, but it is wanting to make players responsible for their actions - in base design, story choices, and the concept of "hacking people" in the first place!

Personally, I believe a knock of effect of this is stopping everyone's networks from looking exactly the same as what will eventually be a meta/cookie cutter build. I do see that there are some large xp disparities between some players though, both due to removed nodes, and also due to a disproportionate amount of security/business nodes. (For the record, these things are being reviewed - that's all I have at the moment!)

Re: Experience Points

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:41 am
by Mchief
The counter to this however is that if some one wants to Inflate there level it's very easy to do , build a node upgrade a few times then delete and repeat, oh and as a player who wants my levels as low as then can get saying 100% of players don't want there level to go down is flat out wrong and in fact is why a lot of players quit.

Thin about it, player A gets the game and plays his way for 3-4 months , finds out his build is not working and does some looking around , finds a good build but it requires 30-70% change in his nodes , the level change this would apply would push him higher into the ladder putting him up against foes who are significantly more powerful while he becomes defenceless, player leaves game.....

I have been playing for almost a full year now and have shown it to 5 friends two of which have quit for this issue.

I would prefer it if any network change forced a recalculation of level , that way if a build bombs and you tear down and rebuild you fight at your actual level and not what you where at

Re: Experience Points

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:33 am
by PerseVerAnce
Mchief wrote:The counter to this however is that if some one wants to Inflate there level it's very easy to do , build a node upgrade a few times then delete and repeat, oh and as a player who wants my levels as low as then can get saying 100% of players don't want there level to go down is flat out wrong and in fact is why a lot of players quit.

Thin about it, player A gets the game and plays his way for 3-4 months , finds out his build is not working and does some looking around , finds a good build but it requires 30-70% change in his nodes , the level change this would apply would push him higher into the ladder putting him up against foes who are significantly more powerful while he becomes defenceless, player leaves game.....

I have been playing for almost a full year now and have shown it to 5 friends two of which have quit for this issue.

I would prefer it if any network change forced a recalculation of level , that way if a build bombs and you tear down and rebuild you fight at your actual level and not what you where at
I second that I would definitely jump at the opportunity to recalculate my level if offered.


As I've stated this a few times in various places, the current design of the game encourages minmaxing over progression. So having a high level is currently a bad thing.

Re: Experience Points

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:45 am
by scrougy
In my opinion, the "player level" should be taken out entirelly or taken more seriously.

Currently, the only thing it affects is the search algorythm, and nothing else, as far as i know.

for the game without "player level": see in Froste's post, particularly what Lurking Rage said on discord.
https://forum.tricksterarts.com/viewtop ... 290#p10552

although, i cant really think of a good way, one would be to take the total reputation of the player (without the losses of failed hacks/denences). any idea on this aproach, that would reward - or at least, not punish - the players with high levels?

Re: Experience Points

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:47 pm
by TheLurkingRage
Luminaar wrote:
Anraton wrote:Deleting a node doesn't affect your gained experience/level... While I don't want to be degraded
Imma stop you right there - and say thank you! The team already knew that 100% of players don't want to be reduced in level. It's nice to see a written quote from someone confirming that.
Anraton wrote:... I think it would be a good idea, to only get raising experience again, if the new network catched up with my actuall experience gained.
I don't know how technically possible this is, but the idea is sound, and I'll add/amend someone on the suggestions list regarding that.
The reason player level is an issue is because of the search algorithm in the first place. If you can fix the search like I'd suggested, then level inflation wouldn't be as big a deal as it is now.

I have never heard any experienced player with an inflated level say they wished to be even higher leveled, or stay at that level if they deleted a node. Every experienced player knows that a good network depends on three factors: Network layout, node levels and player level. By making it so the level doesn't go down when you delete a node, you wouldn't be improving anything, Lumi, in fact you'd have made it worse because now you wouldn't know how much you can upgrade the node you just bought before you reach your level again since it'd stay static and completely screw over planing ahead unless you did some backtracking which it alone could be another issue.

I have a good network layout and good node levels, however due to the fact that my level is inflated, my network is actually relatively easy for my level range, so you can count me out of that "100% of players that don't want to be reduced in level" statistic. I also don't see how the statement of a newbie confirms that veterans have the same presumed wishes. :/