/help/bug report

Luminaar
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Re: /help/bug report

Post by Luminaar » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:15 am

Cassiopeia wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:26 pm
But: Artificer wearing Horned Cape and Squealing Jaws: When a Lesser Reaver kills baddies from it's death explosion, no charge orbs drop from the kills. According to the description of Horned Cape, they should drop.
We'll check this out - thanks!
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Luminaar
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Re: /help/bug report

Post by Luminaar » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:55 am

TheLurkingRage wrote:... leveling system ...
You know that we know the level system isn't perfect. :lol: To quote Erric, "[Player Level is] currently the only usable quantity we have to define how strong a player is. We're looking to create a system that isn't exploitable in the same way as Hackers, Hearthstone, Clash Royale and other games are with regards to rank-dumping, while still providing a measure of advancement. We hope to prevent things like low-rep farming or suffering intentional losses in order to manipulate any systems that we put in place."
TheLurkingRage wrote:I beat level 32 shards (highest in my range) with my Arcane Mage that I've had since 15+ levels ago. Why couldn't I get it done then?
"5 levels" is an arbitrary range, based somewhere in the middle of the factors that affect it. Getting quality gear early for a particular hero is somewhere on one side (especially Mage/Hunter + a few kiting skills,) while levelling up and having quests but no loot for a particular hero is somewhere on the other. 5 levels seems a sweet spot for the start of the game, but I wouldn't be surprised to see this extended slightly at later levels.
TheLurkingRage wrote:It's just like working at any job irl and getting paid less for simply being more experienced
As an RP Game, it's more akin to giving less XP to Heroes hunting easy battles in starter zones.
TheLurkingRage wrote:If the glory system got overhauled to make every shard a viable source of glory, then why can't it be the same for orbs?
It didn't need overhauling, because orb rates are more resistant to changes in a Shard's layout compared to Glory, eg: Boom Farms. Your orb gain is only slightly under average, most likely due to a combination of running shards that are way under your level, and "losing some efficiency" while speed running through them (due to hidden/out of the way chests etc.)
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MycroftHolmes
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Re: /help/bug report

Post by MycroftHolmes » Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:41 am

TheLurkingRage wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:24 am
More and more players are level capping themselves knowing how progression really takes a nose dive the higher leveled you are and how it becomes increasingly harder to grind. If the glory system got overhauled to make every shard a viable source of glory, then why can't it be the same for orbs?
If this is how it really is, I can see how wanting to be able to play (better) shards I can probably beat (and get 30/1500+ from) but not being able to is actually a minor annoyance. I am fortunate that I can play almost all 5 heroes at +5 level shards for very good reward efficiency, while being able to expend that income into Creator packs until I can make almost any shard I want.

My question to you, Lurking, is if you had an extra 7k orbs accumulated - as if every shard you completed since you were around level 15 gave you more Orbs than they did - what would you spend them on? You want your Hero level to remain at 27 (for season 3), so would you spend them on Creator packs?

I'm asking because I have been watching more of your livestreams (on YT archive) and feel like you have provided me with valuable information (not to mention entertainment) and so I would consider it worthwhile to gift your account some packs in-game to offset the "penalty" you incurred by leveling up beyond the "sweet spot" within the current system of shard access vs. reward.

I don't intend it as a stop-gap solution for a system you believe is flawed. It is genuine gratitude. However if it were to have the effect of adjusting your rewards to roughly what a system with your suggested changes would have been, then perhaps you could use it to create the content you expected to be able to by now and continue to focus unimpeded on making more great videos.

If by that method I support the developer of this quality, ad-free product (flawed or not) that has provided me hours worth of enjoyment... two birds with one stone.

As for me, I have sunk enough into Creator packs that my last 2 shards, "Warehouse District" and "One Way Out" are actually higher level than I should be able to beat, and would be 🔐 locked if they weren't my shards. Of course I not only beat them to publish them - I full cleared them both with my Warrior and Hunter classes. But not without difficulty. At this rate, I will indeed be able to create shards I cannot publish, which goes without saying would be a problem. So my plan going forward is to level up my Hero enough that I can always full clear my published shards, but not so much that they pose no challenge. That will be my leveling guideline.
Last edited by MycroftHolmes on Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: /help/bug report

Post by MycroftHolmes » Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:53 am

Luminaar wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:55 am
It didn't need overhauling, because orb rates are more resistant to changes in a Shard's layout compared to Glory, eg: Boom Farms. Your orb gain is only slightly under average, most likely due to a combination of running shards that are way under your level, and "losing some efficiency" while speed running through them (due to hidden/out of the way chests etc.)
I've noticed in several of Lurking's streams he mentions opening chests and gaining 0 Orbs, and shard creators placing "too many" chests in relation to the difficulty of their shard. Obviously, a 50 shardstone realm with nothing in it but a start, an exit, and 3 chests probably shouldn't grant many Orbs, but could you demystify what determines chest loot tables for us?

I would assume if you max out the realm with 50/50 monsters, place 3 chests, then any player equal to or lower than the shard's level ought to get something out of each of the chests. At what point, as a shard designer, should I place fewer chests than I am allowed if I were to want a higher level player to get at least an Orb from the chest(s) I DO place, while not preventing a player to whom my shard is +5 from getting the 30 Orb max to reward them for managing a full clear?
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Re: /help/bug report

Post by Luminaar » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:00 am

MycroftHolmes wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:53 am
could you demystify what determines chest loot tables for us?
Sure. :)

Shards have a number of Orbs available, which is determined primarily by "Player vs Shard" stats. These orbs are then distributed across the Shard contents randomly, with varying weights for each element. Chests have the highest weight, with higher source/rarity monsters having less weight than chests, but more than other elements such as barrels.

The number of chests in a shard don't change the amount of loot available, only influence where the available loot will end up. For situations where there are less orbs available than the number of chests placed, inevitably there will be chests that contain zero loot. Your decisions regarding number and location should be based on whatever you're trying to achieve!

For example, a designer of a Treasure hunt/Maze shard will probably want to use all of the chests available, to maximise the distribution of rewards in them. Here's a Shard that puts all the chests at the start for story purposes (full disclosure, it's one of mine.) A creator that wants all the rewards allocated to defeating monsters instead however, might consider not placing any chests at all to weight the distrubution towards the bigger monsters that are in use.

As the designer, you get to choose the number and location of chests that suit the reward for a particular task, the story narrative, or whatever intention you're aiming for!
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Re: /help/bug report

Post by MycroftHolmes » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:46 am

I suppose I have only played shards where chests have been placed, but if what I'm understanding is correct, not placing any chests will still allow, for example, a level 15 hero to full clear a level 20 shard and get 30 Orbs (they will just drop from enemies instead)
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Re: /help/bug report

Post by TheLurkingRage » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:56 am

MycroftHolmes wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:41 am
My question to you, Lurking, is if you had an extra 7k orbs accumulated - as if every shard you completed since you were around level 15 gave you more Orbs than they did - what would you spend them on? You want your Hero level to remain at 27 (for season 3), so would you spend them on Creator packs?

I'm asking because I have been watching more of your livestreams (on YT archive) and feel like you have provided me with valuable information (not to mention entertainment) and so I would consider it worthwhile to gift your account some packs in-game to offset the "penalty" you incurred by leveling up beyond the "sweet spot" within the current system of shard access vs. reward.
I'd save them up and use those orbs to open a bunch of creator packs at the start of the next season :D cuz yeah I'm not leveling up until there is no depreciation for orbs the higher level you are, and lmao it's great to be one of the birds you'll be hitting with one stone, tho I always tell people who spend money in the game to always go for the most expensive pack as not only have I done myself in the past for Hackers, but it also gives you the best bang for your buck and TA deserves it.
Luminaar wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:55 am
TheLurkingRage wrote:It's just like working at any job irl and getting paid less for simply being more experienced
As an RP Game, it's more akin to giving less XP to Heroes hunting easy battles in starter zones.
But why treat it that way if it's not our XP it really sucks because intentionally capping out the orb gain per shard at 30 and reducing the amount of orbs you get from a lower level shard makes both doing higher level shards and lower level shards not worth it so you're stuck at this awkward middle. If you go higher, lower level shards become less worthwhile and there aren't many high level shards, so it works against itself. I think there should be incentive to play all shards for orbs as well not just glory. I really wanna know the backstory to capping orbs at 30, as that's an interesting choice considering the 5 orbs icon would at least be more fitting for a cap of 50.
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Re: /help/bug report

Post by MycroftHolmes » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:10 am

TheLurkingRage wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:56 am
...lmao it's great to be one of the birds you'll be hitting with one stone, tho I always tell people who spend money in the game to always go for the most expensive pack as not only have I done myself in the past for Hackers, but it also gives you the best bang for your buck and TA deserves it.
Of course they do, that's why there are two birds! I always end up spending real money in free apps where I see value in it. I always start small and build up if I am still active within the game months or years down the road, whereas others may spend everything in a month or two then drop their contribution to 0. The best value is still going to be the best value no matter when you get it.

I am situated quite nicely and am pleased with the pace I am "earning" my packs in-game, although in time I may go for a huge Hero or Creator Pack bundle depending on my goals as new updates arrive and sway me one way or the other. I suppose in a way I am "competing" with others and how well my shards are trafficked and rated but I don't feel like I need a ton of packs early on to gain an advantage. The commodity I am most lacking in is time within the game.

To Luminaar:

Once I heard the in-game announcement that stars for farm shards will no longer count toward Top Builder ranking, I thought "great, now I can go back from rank 45 to the Top 30 or 20 where I started out". Then I see Vir is still #1 with 12k stars gained exclusively from farm shards. They have almost nothing else. I don't understand it. Help me out?
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Re: /help/bug report

Post by TheLurkingRage » Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:31 pm

MycroftHolmes wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:10 am
Once I heard the in-game announcement that stars for farm shards will no longer count toward Top Builder ranking, I thought "great, now I can go back from rank 45 to the Top 30 or 20 where I started out". Then I see Vir is still #1 with 12k stars gained exclusively from farm shards. They have almost nothing else. I don't understand it. Help me out?
They get to keep their position but now they can't advance any further unless they make non-farm shards. Vir quit the game around the time they introduced the 7-day cooldown, so you won't be seeing him around next season. Next season you won't be seeing any farmers on the leaderboard. Thanks for the packs! Imma save them up and open them at the start of next season, should make for a great livestream opening so many packs at once with my orbs as well and having so much stuff to work with :D
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Re: /help/bug report

Post by MycroftHolmes » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:52 pm

You're welcome.

And nice, I better get to making my next Top Shard to debut next season so I can be near the top 20 again.

Also, there are tangible rewards being a Top Champion with the glory you earn. Are their for ending a season in the Top Builder list, too? It would make sense if you are providing top content that you get an award to keep it up. Either a number of Creator packs based on being Top 50, Top 20, Top 5, etc. Or straight realm cards, perhaps the ones that cost 800 to craft if you're near the top. Or Golden enemies you can use to represent main characters in a story.
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