[Balance concepts] Ideas on how to improve the game

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Duente Zaibatsu
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:46 pm

[Balance concepts] Ideas on how to improve the game

Postby Duente Zaibatsu » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:56 pm

TL;DR:
- Make defence profitable, by allowing the Defender to gain all BitCoins used on the Attacker failed attempt.
- Make expensive and long-to-compile programs worthy of their costs.
- Implement different/several META

Hi.
I am a Hackers player, just like pretty much everyone here.
I desire to present some concepts I have come up to, as to improve the game, in its concept, and some minor rules.

Economy:
Core has 0 storage capacity. Starting network gain a Mixer and a Database
-> Having the core completely downloaded increases all resource downloads by X (suggestion: 500%)
If a Defender still has the Core Files, then it gains all BitCoins used by the Attacker.
-> Nodes directly attached to the Core, have X% more firewall, and "work" Y% faster (sugestion: X= 25%, Y = 50%)
- - - > By "work", I mean that resources are mined faster, programs are compile faster, defences deal more damage, etc.

Mixers can have up to 20% BitCoins stolen
DataBase can have up to 20% Money stolen
Mine can have up to 50% BitCoin stolen
Server Farm can have up to 50% Money stolen

Stealth:
DDoS:
A player may choose to "disable" a netConnection, to increase stealth/active time. So, a player might "DDoS (Distributed Denial of Service)" attack a netConnection node, to increase the network load, and decrease its detection rate, and finally delay the Network Reboot.
- > This must be done in the Stealth part of the attack, and perhaps be activated by a new program.
- Suggestion: Disabled netConnection increases stealth limit by 20%, and reboot by 15 seconds.

Data Leech:
Stealth Leech remains the same, however, whenever a Data Leech completely downloads a node, then it is "refunded" back to the Attacker, for X% its BitCoin value (suggestion 50% +20% per level)

Access:
Continue as is. Access is "refunded" back as BitCoins to the Attacker, for X% its BitCoin value, on a successfull Hack. (suggestion 50% +20% per level)

Wraith:
Continue as is. A Wraithed node, is a severed part of the Defender Network.

Portal:
Continue as is, but -> When a Portal is placed, the Attacker should have a "buffer" bonus, for when the Brute Force start, mostly to be a reason to upgrade portal. This "buffer" would work similar to a Guardian buff. (suggestion: 125 per Portal level)

Brute Force:
The Kraken is extremely expensive, when compared to most other programs, as well as having more cost, size, and compile time, its main usage is to "reach the core".
I propose a increase in functionality: When the Kraken has reached the core, and the core is completely downloaded, then it starts to "grow" on each of its appendages, starting from the Core. "Severed" Kraken behavior destroys each appendage.
this means that if a player has the core directly connected to a netConnection, the Kraken does not become useless, as well as increasing its usage, on most attacks. (I have yet to see a high leveled player, that does not focus directly on ICE+Bean, or ICE+Shuriken)

Bean:
Continues as is. It is the META, as well as the basic attack program.

Shuriken:
Continues as is. It is the META, as well as a basic attack program.

Ice Wall:
Continues as is, as its the main support for the attacking force.

Protector:
Since its the same role, as the Ice Wall, I suggest that increases in the Protector Level decrease its instalation time in X seconds, so as to offer an upgrade/alternative, to the Ice Wall. (suggestion 0.25 seconds per level)

Blaster:
Continue as is. Blaster is a mix of heavy damage/disable, good for chokepoints, but slow to be effective.

Worm:
Worms appear to have the role of "attack support", or something akin to the Bean Cannon role. Worms are considerably weaker than a large ammount of Beans. I suggest that worms "duplicate" internaly, using a single program slot, and gaining on its attack. So, a worm will be placed in a slot, and "upgrade" its level, increasing its attack. thus creating a "increasing bean" kind of attack, while leaving room for other types of programs. A Worm would be dangerous when left alone.
How would it work:
- You place a Worm, in a node.
- - If it has no enemy nodes, it would try to place a Worm in a neighbour node.
- - - - If a node would receive a Worm, but already has one, increase its attack power once, up to "Researched Worm level" times.
- - If it has an enemy node, attack as usual.

Shocker:
Most Attackers and Defenders I have seen have never used the Shocker. it is expensive, uses 6 spaces, and is of relatively rare good cenarios to use.
My suggestion would be to have the shocker be an alternative to Ice Wall / Protector. A Shocker would be placed, but instead of being "discarded" when fire, would recharge, when recharged, if the node still has enemy nodes, would refire, if not, would refund back to the Attacker as BitCoin (suggestion 50% + 10% per level)

Battering Ram:
Again, since a well leveled Bean will destroy a Gate in the same time a Ram would take, the Battering Ram would behave like the Shocker, dealing "Filter" only damage, but installing faster, and being "used" after it attacks. For this, a Ram would be of smaller "space", and a faster compile time. Would also only be valid to place, on a Node with a "Filtered" Node as neighbour. (suggestion: 30% + 10% per level)

Finally, the Maniac:
One of the most expensive and underused programs.
For players that have the Maniac unloacked, I suggest allowing a "signature move", i.e. the Player may choose one other program, to affect the Maniac with, thus altering its function:
- Bean: Maniac will not be consumed when fired, but instead recharges (like a Blaster)
- Protector: Maniac installs a Protector on the targeted node, if its captured, installing instantly.
- Shuriken : Maniac fires at all neighbour nodes at once.
- Blaster: Maniac "wraiths" the target node.
- Worm: Maniac installs a new Maniac on target node, if it captures it by dealing damage, increases install time by 4.5 seconds.
- Kraken: Maniac increases the Kraken count on that netConnection (to a max of 2)
- Maniac: Attacks without a "signature move" cause a succesfull node capture to refund the Maniac cost.
(What about Ram/Shocker/Ice Wall, nothing...)

I present most of theses concepts with the desire to discuss if they appear to be valid, and if they "sound like" they would actually improve the game. On most Strategy games, the higher leveled up stuff is considerably stronger than the basic, but the basic still has uses later on.
In this game, the "high leveled" stuff is mostly worthless, and the basic (when upgraded) completely overwhelms the rest.

My main issue with Hackers, is that there is no benefit to playing defence, and the META is much stronger than any other tatic. and is unfortunately only later on (level 30+) where the game really shows the difference.
Having an all around build is simply the weakest.
Having upgrades on other buildings is kind of lower value as well.
Finally, when the "stealth part" of the game starts to kick in, most of it can be achieved, by brute forcing Bean+Ice wall, thus removing the concept of "preparation per attack", and any bonus to upgrade anything that isnt going to be directly used.

crack
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:58 am

Re: [Balance concepts] Ideas on how to improve the game

Postby crack » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:01 am

Only parts I agree too that r needed r the reduced compile times of programs higher ones for sure and I think this is true "In this game, the "high leveled" stuff is mostly worthless, and the basic (when upgraded) completely overwhelms the rest.". Stealth defo needs no buff just needs to be used well in hacking and at the right time in your game progress. If u r a stealth user and r not doing well or its not working for u then I'd say u have not strategised well. The game is all about strategy not I like this because it looks nice etc.
Neither of these!!! Pay 2 Win /Smurf /Minmaxer :shock: Definitely these!!! 0$ dude/ TP/ RHG/Play by the ROE/Friendly/& an ass *donkey) lol

crack
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:58 am

Re: [Balance concepts] Ideas on how to improve the game

Postby crack » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:02 am

Sorry forgot to say nice effort and input.
Neither of these!!! Pay 2 Win /Smurf /Minmaxer :shock: Definitely these!!! 0$ dude/ TP/ RHG/Play by the ROE/Friendly/& an ass *donkey) lol

Duente Zaibatsu
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:46 pm

Re: [Balance concepts] Ideas on how to improve the game

Postby Duente Zaibatsu » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:53 pm

crack wrote:Only parts I agree too that r needed r the reduced compile times of programs higher ones for sure and I think this is true "In this game, the "high leveled" stuff is mostly worthless, and the basic (when upgraded) completely overwhelms the rest.". Stealth defo needs no buff just needs to be used well in hacking and at the right time in your game progress. If u r a stealth user and r not doing well or its not working for u then I'd say u have not strategised well. The game is all about strategy not I like this because it looks nice etc.

Thank you.

I do believe that "higher tier" programs should be better than the lower/starter tier of programs.
I do want incentives to play those, since they seem to be underpowered, as is.
The developers likely have metrics on those, such as ammount used, number of win/loses using those, etc.

My main probelm, is the cost. This game has 3 main currencies:
"Money", "BitCoin", "Time".
The "Time", can be bought with credits, but its the main deterrent in the overall progress of the game...
The Money/BitCoin, are the resources that are mined/stolen, and that aids the gameplay.

However, I have been playing less, due to the fact that I will only be able to spend Money/BitCoin, with Building Threads and the Evolver. Since those are huge time in each (days), then I realize that I should only "harvest/steal", a couple of hours before I need those resources.
I play a couple of desired matches, creating a nice attack, and then storm ICE+Bean, to conquer the last resource part, spend the resource, then wait for days again...

What I want to propose, is that the "basic tier" programs should be of lower value, when compared to the higher tier.
I do this, by issuing a "refund" policy, so that lost attacks, even early on, would increase the defender resources, thus incouraging players to invest in attack/defence.
This "refund" policy would apply to all programs, but some would have a greater rate of return, to increase its usage.

As far as stealth attacks, I mostly go for "stealth before the storm", where I prepare an attack route, and disable some chokepoints, or even portal into a nested resource area..

A full stealth attack, where I reach, download, steal, is rarely an option, since most people hide either their resources, or their core.
Also, I personally dislike doing that.
I want to steal, I want that the person can try stealing back. But I want me/them to have incentives.
A failed attack, bonus BitCoin, and a chance to steal from the opportunist.
A successfull attack, a chance to steal from the opportunist
A failed revenge, additional bonus for the first attacker.
A successfull revenge, a chance to steal back and forth...

Finally, just a heads up, if you wish, you can edit your own posts, and alter the content, instead of making several posts. Its usually cleaner.
Good day o/

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TheLurkingRage
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Re: [Balance concepts] Ideas on how to improve the game

Postby TheLurkingRage » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:14 pm

Some of these are 'ok', but others are among the worst suggestions I've ever read. The one thing that seemed most ridiculous to implement is refunding the programs after being used... like... why even put a price on them when compiling them, then?

-> Having the core completely downloaded increases all resource downloads by X (suggestion: 500%)

Increasing the download speeds of all resources by 500% after downloading the core is HUGE. Not even Data Leeches level 21 boost download speeds that much and you'd be rendering them useless pretty much.
If a Defender still has the Core Files, then it gains all BitCoins used by the Attacker.

That's just stupid and doesn't follow any sort of logic whatsoever.
-> Nodes directly attached to the Core, have X% more firewall, and "work" Y% faster (sugestion: X= 25%, Y = 50%)

Why increase the firewall of each node attached to the core, when we can shield nodes already with the Guardians?
I sure wouldn't mind being able to compile faster and have stronger defenses tho.

Mixers can have up to 20% BitCoins stolen
DataBase can have up to 20% Money stolen
Mine can have up to 50% BitCoin stolen
Server Farm can have up to 50% Money stolen

Players are already dry as is, no need to make the loot even shittier than it already is. I'm sure we'd all rather stick to taking a 3rd of what they have instead of reducing it down to a 5th.

Stealth:

All of these suggestions are awful. Early and end game stealth are already OP as is, no need to worsen it. Regarding the portal, just install an ICE Wall then, what's the problem? You're not adding anything particularly useful that can't already be done through other means. Want to be able to dive in deeper using stealth? Well then wraith their scanner and viola.

Brute Force: Kraken

Now this sounds more appropriate... The Kraken is indeed too easy to counter and render useless, so I can see how doing this would actually be a proper buff to the program... Although I believe the Kraken needs a strength nerf first (Or buff the Code Gates and Guardians instead). Unlike you, I deal with Kraken attacks from players like Acidwar, Gream, zeitweilig, Kurticus and many others, so I actually have defense experience against maxed out Krakens and they wreck havoc.

Protector:

Another suggestion that shows clearly your lack of experience in the game. The Protector needs a nerf if anything. It's not meant to be an alternative to the ICE Wall, and making it so would render the ICE Walls useless and make the Protector even more OP than it already is, however... I've reason to believe that this would be a proper feature to add to the program if we were to nerf it instead. Make the Protector take 4 seconds to install at level 1 and 9 seconds to install at level 21. Reverse your suggestion and turn it into a nerf. Protector 13 would take 7 seconds to install. Sounds good to me, gives more reason to level up ICE Walls and not keep them low leveled.

Blaster:

Blaster needs a nerf. It shouldn't continue as is, it's too powerful. Blaster 17 or 18 should become the new Blaster 21 and they should make it so you can't stun lock a node either by limiting the use of the program to 1 per node, or adding some sort of prevention that gives the nodes a breather before they can be stunned again.

Worm:

The worm does need a buff again and the problem with it is how slow it is. It needs to be able to duplicate and attack at the same time. There is also another idea I had for the program...
Make it so you can plant it during stealth mode and it will spread throughout the network like the sentry's AV and stay dormant in all nodes until you hack them. That way they're already there and can start attacking as soon as you take control of a node. They would duplicate just as fast as they do now as if all nodes had been taken, but without being able to attack until you've taken control of the nodes that are infected with it. Losing control of a node would delete the worms as well and they'd have to receive them again just like they do now. My suggestions for the Worm would make an all round proper buff if you ask me, and this way I'd actually use them.

Shocker:

You're lucky to not have to deal with Shocker spammers. They waste programs relentlessly and are the reason some players want the Shocker nerfed. I can't imagine the response of these players if they made the shocker rechargeable and I wouldn't approve of such a change either. Any changes ever suggested regarding the Shocker I've disagreed with because they either nerf it to oblivion or make it OP AF, not solving the core of the problem, which is that they spam this program. Yours seems to buff it, which is certainly not needed. Now, if it were an anti spam measurement like once you use it the program locks up and recharges before you can use it again (make the recharge take as long as the effect does), then you'd be onto something because you're not making it less effective on the node its being used in, you're just making it so hackers would be forced to use it where it really matters and not on every node they capture, where they should be using ICE Walls instead... this anti spam measurement I've just come up with sounds more like an anti idiot measurement, because if anything you'd be helping the hacker learn how to properly use the program, you wouldn't be "nerfing" it. Think of it the same way that Access, Wraith and Portal work. They have an anti idiot feature where they lock up once you've used them in a node as to prevent you from spamming that program on the same node so you don't waste them. Shocker could work the same way... but I'm not entirely sure if it's a good idea to teach shocker spammers how to use the program, that way they stay with ridiculously high compile times, like ManOWar and his 2 hour compile times in mid game while mine on average are 30 minutes at end game. If you ask me, they're paying the price of spamming shockers with ridiculous compile times, but if players still insist they want shocker spamming to be a thing of the past, then I believe my solution would be the way to go. Again, you wouldn't be 'nerfing' the program as it'd still have the same effect on the node it's used on, it would just mean shocker spammers would have to start using ICE Walls and Protectors too like they should be doing in the first place if they want to multi task... helping prevent them from being awful Hackers while allowing your network to "defend" against them like many complain they can't do (even though they can, it's just their networks that suck).

Battering Ram:

Of all your suggestions, this one speaks the most on your lack of experience by far. Battering Rams are one of the most OP programs in the game and if anything it needs a nerf much like the Blaster does - way too powerful, Ram 15 should become the new Ram 21. Garbage Code Gates will always get beamed down, it's not the Battering Ram that's under powered, it's the Code Gates that need to be upgraded. Ridiculous suggestion, I definitely disagree with it entirely.

Finally, the Maniac:

Ooh goodie! My area of expertise >:)
The Maniac is one the programs that needs a serious buff the most despite being the strongest program in the game. I had suggested in the discord server before that the Maniac should act like a Shuriken and disable the neighboring nodes of the nodes it just hit either for a short period of time like the shocker, or disable them completely like the Wraith if we really wanted the Maniac to become OP and Meta for tough choke points to really make it worth using it. I'm glad that despite your limited knowledge, you had similar thoughts on how to properly buff the Maniac :D

On most Strategy games, the higher leveled up stuff is considerably stronger than the basic, but the basic still has uses later on.
In this game, the "high leveled" stuff is mostly worthless, and the basic (when upgraded) completely overwhelms the rest.

It's the same in this game in a way. "High leveled programs" if by that you meant programs that you unlock later on rather than the level of the programs themselves, are considerably stronger than the basic programs and they still have uses later on. Stealth programs and ICE Walls are the perfect example because they're unlocked early in the game and are best kept low leveled until you reach end game.

Having an all around build is simply the weakest.
Having upgrades on other buildings is kind of lower value as well.

This is due to the way the search works. It is based on your level and reputation, not your defense and offense strength or defense and offense success rate. Completely flawed concept in a game where level inflation is a thing. It isn't weaker, it just levels you up faster. It's not as effective to focus on Turrets and Black ICE as is it to focus on the Sentry. The Sentry gives little XP in comparison and is a lot more useful because it helps your entire network defend itself. This issue could be solved by getting rid of the ridiculous level inflation, changing the way the search works, and/or making the sentry give more XP than the Turret or Black ICE.

Finally, when the "stealth part" of the game starts to kick in, most of it can be achieved, by brute forcing Bean+Ice wall, thus removing the concept of "preparation per attack", and any bonus to upgrade anything that isnt going to be directly used.

Not sure what you're even saying here... and it's beams, not beans, btw.

What an awfully long post, but personally I appreciate your enthusiasm to want to help fix the game and sharing your ideas with us!
I would just prefer if you formatted it into a shorter post next time if possible :)
First hacker to reach 4k rep.

TheLurkingRage A.K.A Azussa, RepRipper and more
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Duente Zaibatsu
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Re: [Balance concepts] Ideas on how to improve the game

Postby Duente Zaibatsu » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:32 pm

TheLurkingRage wrote:why even put a price on them when compiling them, then?

To "prize" the winner of an conflict. Much like the Rank bonus, but to prize the defender as well, if its of lower level/rank than the attacker.
Whoever wins the battle, gets the "refund" prize.

TheLurkingRage wrote:Having the core completely downloaded increases all resource downloads by X

The X, means its something, not 500%.
What I desire, is having players actually trying to defend the Core.
I would say that around 70% of players places a netConnection directly on the core, and a 10% places it around the first 3 connections.
It is weird that a "Win Condition" is so undesired by players, that Defendes wont bother against it, and some attackers wont even try to capture it, going straight and only for resources.
About Leeches. Yes, that would render them useless on Brute Force. IMHO, Leeches main focus is downloading large ammount of resources, or doing it in stealth entirely.
I just want some/any bonus for an ttacking player, so that Defenders try to safeguard their Core.

TheLurkingRage wrote:
If a Defender still has the Core Files, then it gains all BitCoins used by the Attacker.
That's just stupid and doesn't follow any sort of logic whatsoever.

This is the "Win Condition" for the "refund" bonus. The logic is that you spent the BitCoin for something.
The BitCoin doesnt "disappear", it just changes owner. As far as gameplay goes, its the same as you "counter stole" that resource.

TheLurkingRage wrote:
-> Nodes directly attached to the Core, have X% more firewall, and "work" Y% faster (sugestion: X= 25%, Y = 50%)
Why increase the firewall of each node attached to the core, when we can shield nodes already with the Guardians?
I sure wouldn't mind being able to compile faster and have stronger defenses tho.

Again, just some form of bonus, for the Player, to keep the Core used, connected, and protected.

TheLurkingRage wrote:
Mixers can have up to 20% BitCoins stolen
DataBase can have up to 20% Money stolen
Mine can have up to 50% BitCoin stolen
Server Farm can have up to 50% Money stolen

Players are already dry as is, no need to make the loot even shittier than it already is. I'm sure we'd all rather stick to taking a 3rd of what they have instead of reducing it down to a 5th.

The concept is to have a lower ramp in "safe" resource, and a higher ramp in "volatile" resource.
This would benefit players that interact more with the game, and allow the same average stealable ammount (those numbers might need changes, but the oncept is: Mine/Farm can be further stolen, Mixer/Database would be safer.
This would allow players that rarely play (once a day), to have enough resources, to order an upgrade, but still be stealable, on volatile resources.

TheLurkingRage wrote:
Stealth:

All of these suggestions are awful. Early and end game stealth are already OP as is, no need to worsen it. Regarding the portal, just install an ICE Wall then, what's the problem? You're not adding anything particularly useful that can't already be done through other means. Want to be able to dive in deeper using stealth? Well then wraith their scanner and viola.

I do not see how those ideas worsen stealth.
Portal is already good enough that a level 1 portal (330vs, 160 BitCoin), and a level 5 portal (264 vs, 800 BitCoin) would have similar results, still, it cost deeply more, and have no "advantage" to upgrading. The same with Access, the benefit of the upgrade is minimal.
What I suggest is some other "levelable" bonus, that would encourage the upgrade of the Program, as well as a benefit for a player that accumulated enough resources to do so, and has the habit of using such a costly program (like any other)

TheLurkingRage wrote:
Brute Force: Kraken

Now this sounds more appropriate... The Kraken is indeed too easy to counter and render useless, so I can see how doing this would actually be a proper buff to the program... Although I believe the Kraken needs a strength nerf first (Or buff the Code Gates and Guardians instead). Unlike you, I deal with Kraken attacks from players like Acidwar, Gream, zeitweilig, Kurticus and many others, so I actually have defense experience against maxed out Krakens and they wreck havoc.

Yes, Krakens will deal loads of damage, being even an effective counter to Gate(s).
The main stragety against Krakens would be:
- Place the Core at the netConnection(s) closest position, delimiting strategies that would benefit "winning a defence".
- Place each netConnection far from each other, thus removing the "larger Kraken" approach.
- Ignoring the Kraken as the Main Treat, and having several small chokepoints, to keep branching it off.

However, I want to present a simple math:
Level 1 Beam = 1 space, 1 BitCoin, 15 dps. No research needed.
Level 10 Beam = 1 space, 18 BitCoin, 45 dps.

Level 1 Kraken = 7 space, 60 BitCoin, 36 dps, Research needed (some players avoid doing research, to keep their levels lowered)
Level 10 Kraken = 7 space, 600 BitCoin, 108 dps.

Beam after 9 researches, costs 18 times, but still cheap, can be upgraded without any further Evolver upgrades, compared to Kraken.
Still good, still all around, still worriesome for a defender. Also good to fill up, and on a constant 20s compile, you can pretty much stock up, as always usefull (can even have an attack entirely without looking at the defender.

Krakens after 9 researches, costs 10 times, but becomes cumbersomely expensive, requires several other features to upgrade (compared to Beam), still the same effect and role. A Kraken has to be decided prior to each attack, as it may not be usefull.

Also, stealing around 126 BitCoins, you pretty much payed for 7 level 10 Beams. This is usually always feasable.
Stealing around 600 BitCoins, to pay for a single Kraken, is usually hard.
On average, i would say that 21 (for easy math) beams are used for a high leveled attack, and around 3 Krakens....
Expected loot:
378 BitCoin for Beam costs....
1800 BitCoins for Kraken costs...

Something does not add up.

TheLurkingRage wrote:
Protector:

Another suggestion that shows clearly your lack of experience in the game. The Protector needs a nerf if anything. It's not meant to be an alternative to the ICE Wall, and making it so would render the ICE Walls useless and make the Protector even more OP than it already is, however... I've reason to believe that this would be a proper feature to add to the program if we were to nerf it instead. Make the Protector take 4 seconds to install at level 1 and 9 seconds to install at level 21. Reverse your suggestion and turn it into a nerf. Protector 13 would take 7 seconds to install. Sounds good to me, gives more reason to level up ICE Walls and not keep them low leveled.

Comparing 2 Ice Walls with a single protector, they offer around the same defence statuses, other than one is area protection, and the other is time protection.
Higher leveled defences use the fact that underleved nodes can be recaptured in a single hit, thus needing an Ice wall per node, or gaining/loosingg it several times.
My main issue with Ice Wall / Protector, is that its all there is.
Other programs could be added, such as a lower attack one, that "Guardian Buffs" the attacker, or even an Worm Bonus, that blakens (increase attacker hitpoints) the Node, or any other form.
The game is about dominating an Graph, and conquering specific nodes for a while.
For the Attacker, Ice Wall / Protector is a must. I have yet to see a single high leveled attacker NOT use Ice Wall.
A program that is must, should at least be "first tier", to teach new users.

TheLurkingRage wrote:
Blaster:

Blaster needs a nerf. It shouldn't continue as is, it's too powerful. Blaster 17 or 18 should become the new Blaster 21 and they should make it so you can't stun lock a node either by limiting the use of the program to 1 per node, or adding some sort of prevention that gives the nodes a breather before they can be stunned again.
Again, I fail to see the problem.
6 space. Costly, slow.
This is the only "chokepoint breacher" there is in the game.
It take ages to install and attack, and its main purpose is to push the attack foward, while safeguarding against a single largest threat.
On a 5 minute compile each, this also seem balanced to me.

TheLurkingRage wrote:
Worm:

The worm does need a buff again and the problem with it is how slow it is. It needs to be able to duplicate and attack at the same time. There is also another idea I had for the program...
Make it so you can plant it during stealth mode and it will spread throughout the network like the sentry's AV and stay dormant in all nodes until you hack them. That way they're already there and can start attacking as soon as you take control of a node. They would duplicate just as fast as they do now as if all nodes had been taken, but without being able to attack until you've taken control of the nodes that are infected with it. Losing control of a node would delete the worms as well and they'd have to receive them again just like they do now. My suggestions for the Worm would make an all round proper buff if you ask me, and this way I'd actually use them.
My suggestion is kind of that.
A node that is installed, attempts to attack at all times.
A node that cannot attack "buffs" the Worm in its neighbours. An attacking node, may be buffed, by an idle worm.
Mostly, I desire a way to allow the Worm to "fight" with the Beam.
But not on status. Keep the worm expensive (compared to a Beam). A Worm main attribute is the multiplication. Have it be usefull, and 2~3 worms in a single match are already a lot, 20 Beams, are usually average.

TheLurkingRage wrote:
Shocker:
if it were an anti spam measurement like once you use it the program locks up and recharges before you can use it again (make the recharge take as long as the effect does), then you'd be onto something because you're not making it less effective on the node its being used in, you're just making it so hackers would be forced to use it where it really matters and not on every node they capture, where they should be using ICE Walls instead...

This could be done.
Shocker IS an alternative to Ice Wall / Protector. It is only situational, usefull on a node with low defence and several connections. I wish to incentivate players to have any/all tatics, not a Most Effective Tatic Available only kind of build. Being the META, on a different scale game (i.e, not all players have the same moves/pieces at the same time), makes this game nice. Well, makes any game nice. Its like Starcraft, where each race had their own META, and each META could branch out, into other optimal strategies.
Hackers on the other hand, provides the tools, and punishes the attempts.
I fail to see a reason, why removing Node(s) shouldnt lower your player level. Likewise, ELO ratings should play the major role when deciding for Network pairing.
A game should never allow different "ratings" on the same level. While ELO ratings are very hard to refine, its one of those things that make or break a player audience.
Consider this: How would you feel, if you were only able to attack players 30 levels lower than you, but only be attacked by players over 30 levels from you.

TheLurkingRage wrote:
Battering Ram:

Of all your suggestions, this one speaks the most on your lack of experience by far. Battering Rams are one of the most OP programs in the game and if anything it needs a nerf much like the Blaster does - way too powerful, Ram 15 should become the new Ram 21. Garbage Code Gates will always get beamed down, it's not the Battering Ram that's under powered, it's the Code Gates that need to be upgraded. Ridiculous suggestion, I definitely disagree with it entirely.
Kind of the whole point. a Gate function is to "lower available time" from the Attacker.
Most people dont see the benefit of improving them. Most people see that the Beam "beams" trough, and fail to see the Fillter bonus.
The Ram, is specific to pretty much this, with even fewer people seeing the "Guardian" buff being destroyed by it.
A Ram, is against a single target, no other Program does that. So, if its situational, let it be one-shot (or multiple-shots, but self eraseable).
If the Leech removes itself, why not the Ram behave likewise?


TheLurkingRage wrote:
Finally, the Maniac:

Ooh goodie! My area of expertise >:)
The Maniac is one the programs that needs a serious buff the most despite being the strongest program in the game. I had suggested in the discord server before that the Maniac should act like a Shuriken and disable the neighboring nodes of the nodes it just hit either for a short period of time like the shocker, or disable them completely like the Wraith if we really wanted the Maniac to become OP and Meta for tough choke points to really make it worth using it. I'm glad that despite your limited knowledge, you had similar thoughts on how to properly buff the Maniac :D
Despite all ad hominem, you at least see that the highest BFGUN in the game, is almost worthless.
Expensive, spacefull, slow to compile.... and oneshot....
It will do massive damage, on situations its rarely needed.

TheLurkingRage wrote:
On most Strategy games, the higher leveled up stuff is considerably stronger than the basic, but the basic still has uses later on.
In this game, the "high leveled" stuff is mostly worthless, and the basic (when upgraded) completely overwhelms the rest.

It's the same in this game in a way. "High leveled programs" if by that you meant programs that you unlock later on rather than the level of the programs themselves, are considerably stronger than the basic programs and they still have uses later on. Stealth programs and ICE Walls are the perfect example because they're unlocked early in the game and are best kept low leveled until you reach end game.
What I meant was that the first Program, is also the best. Cheap, small, effective, all around.
The highest Tier, situational, expensive, generally not usefull, and the game ELO punishes you for having it.


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