All new juicy data is now available on the Hackers wiki page!

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TheLurkingRage
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All new juicy data is now available on the Hackers wiki page!

Postby TheLurkingRage » Sun May 20, 2018 9:50 am

As the tittle says, we now have access to all the new data! Head to http://hackersthegame.wikia.com/wiki/Hackers_Wikia# and check out all the info available on the AI and Core 13!
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Also wanted to make this post so you guys can share how you're implementing these AI into your network and your program load out and what your opinions on them are so far :D
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Lte1000
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Re: All new juicy data is now available on the Hackers wiki page!

Postby Lte1000 » Fri May 25, 2018 5:18 pm

So in the past I used Shocker to defend captured nodes (and Protector occasionally) which used to work fine. Now, against a network with AI Hawk, Shocker doesn't take out the Hawk, so it isn't enough to defend weak nodes (and there isn't time to install Protector). I have had to add Ice Wall back into my repertoire to defend against the Hawk. I think Ice Wall is the only program for a hacker that can deal with AI Hawk. Possibly AI Beetle could help but it might not defend the node the Hawk is attacking.

So AI Hawk is a strong defensive addition to a network. I think AI Beetle should also be a strong defensive addition, especially if you have a node protected by guardians as well, the beetle will boost the protection.

I have experimented with AI Squid, but it doesn't seem to help much against stealth attacks, as unlike Hawk and Beetle it seems to spend most of its time scanning nodes with no activity. Maybe its just down to luck whether it happens to scan the node the hacker is attacking at the time. If a stealth attacker only attacks one node at a time (which is normal), and there are at least 7 nodes the squid can scan, so you only have a 1 in 7 chance of it being in the right place. I am also not sure AI Squid is an effective attack option. After my experiment I think I am more likely to invest in a second upgraded scanner than AI Squid. I might change my mind if I see people use the squid effectively against me!

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zqx
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Re: All new juicy data is now available on the Hackers wiki page!

Postby zqx » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:27 pm

I got the squid, too, and only tried it once for offensive stealth with abysmal results. Visibility ran out so fast I couldn't abort before the reboot. It takes waaaaay to long to install with the maxed out scanners I face, then the random targeting of nodes makes it worthless. If it is "AI" shouldn't there be more "intelligence" to it's behavior than random chance? Perhaps on defense, if you have a scanner and that scanner detects a stealth attack it nudges the squid in that direction on your network??? Otherwise scans randomly without a scanner. Perhaps on offense it looks for scanners first, then code gates in farthest to nearest order??? In squid against squid it seems to do ok in stopping the other AI, but unless there is some kind of battle royale CGI to go with that demise, it doesn't seem worth the precious B-coins to keep raising it from the dead and "experimenting" to figure out what this cryptoid does and how best to use it. Any chance we can get a "training scenario" for these like the other programs? Since AI is correlated to computing power, should their behavior be tied to core level or proximity somehow?

I have AI Hawk and I've only seen it in action once. At lvl 1 it is certainly no match for the BC+IW maxers, but it did seem to have some minor effect. I will give it more time and a level or two to see how much better it gets with more strength....

zqx

Luminaar
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Re: All new juicy data is now available on the Hackers wiki page!

Postby Luminaar » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:07 pm

zqx wrote:Visibility ran out so fast I couldn't abort before the reboot. It takes waaaaay to long to install with the maxed out scanners I face, then the random targeting of nodes makes it worthless.
The Squid has visibility costs which enable it to Wraith 2 nodes against a similarly levelled Scanner. The level of Squid you used wasn't stated, but if it's similar to the level of Hawk you mentioned then this might be your problem ;) Taking a Level 1 Squid against the "maxed out scanners you face" is a recipe for disaster!
zqx wrote:If it is "AI" shouldn't there be more "intelligence" to it's behavior than random chance?
The Squid does have a random element to it, but it will intelligently ignore all non-security nodes, and will prioritise Code Gates, Sentries, Scanners, Turrets, Black ICE, and other Squid nodes first. It will also Wraith the closest node possible, and will only choose at random where there is more than one available target.
zqx wrote:Any chance we can get a "training scenario" for these like the other programs? Since AI is correlated to computing power, should their behavior be tied to core level or proximity somehow?
While training programs are a great idea, getting the update out was an even better one! xD They may be added in for the future. Changing AI behaviour also sounds interesting, but for now at least, the AIs will perform in the same (albeit potentially random) manner for all levels.
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zqx
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Re: All new juicy data is now available on the Hackers wiki page!

Postby zqx » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:30 pm

Thanks for the reply, Luminaar.

Yes, it was a lvl 1 squid and I should have re-read the behavior rules. As someone else on here said, since it is only available at advanced levels, perhaps I expected it to do more or too much. The random behavior of an "intelligent" node or program is what I find so frustrating. It just seems like it should be more "intelligent" or like we should be able to steer it like a semi-autonomous drone. Instead, what I'm hearing you say is I have to invest another year of play and approximately $143,500,000 and then _maybe_, if stars align, I might see the benefits in action at my level of play. Suggestion for change: Allow us to steer the squid program like a drone. While it installs, let us pick one of the nodes you listed within range that we want it to attack. In defense, have it somehow detect and gravitate towards a stealth attack.

I will probably keep it for a while and upgrade as I see others upgrade, but I don't dare roll the dice for offense until it gets high enough to preserve my visibility and then only if I can predict where it will go. The cost of programs and loss of reputation on a botched stealth are too high to risk on a maybe outcome.

zqx

Luminaar
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Re: All new juicy data is now available on the Hackers wiki page!

Postby Luminaar » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:28 pm

It's an understandable comparison tbh. :) While the Hawk and Beetle both start slightly higher up the table (at level 1 they have the strength of an equivalent level 7-8 node), there was a huge danger in doing that with the Squid - although it was considered!

Starting the Squid off at a similar strength level to the other AIs meant that the Squid was getting 7 Wraiths off against the relative level Scanner! :P To balance it we would've had to make the compile cost around 2500 b-coins for level 1 :D It also resulted in a problem with scaling at higher levels - as you can see from the wiki, the later levels don't have a huge reduction in visibility as they are now - this would've been even more restrictive had the Squid started off more powerful.

You don't need to go as far as max investment for Squid to be viable though. The Squid increases in value as the availability (and reach) of Scanners reduces. For example, if a network only has 2 Code Gates to get through at the start, then place the Squid 1 net connection further away than you would normally. It will still target the Gates first, but the install may then be out of range for the Scanner.

The value of Squid also goes up massively against low or upgrading Scanners. As mentioned above, a Level 9 Squid can disable 7 nodes against no Scanner, saving you around 40 disk space, and costing a substantial amount less in b-coins.

As for allowing players to steer the Squid like a drone - that style of gameplay already exists with your standard Stealth programs!
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those that can read binary, and those that cant.

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HCX - DReaD
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Re: All new juicy data is now available on the Hackers wiki page!

Postby HCX - DReaD » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:00 pm

How about making the AI Squid's scanning homing on nodes that has a stealth program being installed but reduce its scanning time to 1 sec? Or having 2 Squids emerge instead of one and keep the scanning time 3 secs and no homing.

It seems pretty easily dodged as of now, since stealth programs installs just around 1~2 secs and delete itself afterward, only exception is portal for 6 secs. As of now it seems only used against portal and abit of waiting game from putting accesses and/or wraiths.

Luminaar
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Re: All new juicy data is now available on the Hackers wiki page!

Postby Luminaar » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:38 pm

HCX - DReaD wrote:How about making the AI Squid's scanning homing on nodes that has a stealth program being installed but reduce its scanning time to 1 sec? Or having 2 Squids emerge instead of one and keep the scanning time 3 secs and no homing.

It seems pretty easily dodged as of now, since stealth programs installs just around 1~2 secs and delete itself afterward, only exception is portal for 6 secs. As of now it seems only used against portal and abit of waiting game from putting accesses and/or wraiths.
The initial design was intended for the Squid to be avoidable, kinda like your stereotypical guard in other stealth games, and something that you could sneak around while it's not looking in the right direction. That being said, there's certainly scope for adjustment in the future. Things such as tweaking the scan duration, sensitivity, and possibly even the movement speed between nodes are all possible, while keeping the behaviour as simple and as easy to understand as possible.
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HCX - DReaD
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Re: All new juicy data is now available on the Hackers wiki page!

Postby HCX - DReaD » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:04 pm

Luminaar wrote:The initial design was intended for the Squid to be avoidable, kinda like your stereotypical guard in other stealth games, and something that you could sneak around while it's not looking in the right direction. That being said, there's certainly scope for adjustment in the future. Things such as tweaking the scan duration, sensitivity, and possibly even the movement speed between nodes are all possible, while keeping the behaviour as simple and as easy to understand as possible.


Hmmm.. Although that means the Squid is not as attractive as the other 2 AIs tho... (maybe as a program it is more attractive)

Both Hawk and Beetle is straight-forward, and their weakness is when it needs to target multiple nodes (basically overloading it with so many nodes to attack/repair weakens its dps by alot).

But on Squid's side, it's only effective on Stealth Phase, which almost no one can fully utilize to drain other players resources 100% in stealth, most probably will go for hybrid, which Squid can't do anything half the battle... Not-as-fair-enough, Brute Phase takes more than half the battle most of the time, even in hybrid. Maybe add a utility for the Squid node to randomly stun captured nodes 3 connection within itself for x seconds in Brute Phase? Just another suggestion~

Luminaar
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Re: All new juicy data is now available on the Hackers wiki page!

Postby Luminaar » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:22 pm

HCX - DReaD wrote:Hmmm.. Although that means the Squid is not as attractive as the other 2 AIs tho... (maybe as a program it is more attractive)
The Squid node does suffer a bit in popularity. While Hawk and Beetle are super attractive due to being the only ranged attack/defence nodes, the Scanner already does has this effect! If the Scanner was a single node at a time affair, and the Squid scanned any node within 3 range, it would have been received a lot differently! The ratios between Brute Force/Hybrid/Stealth users might be similar to Hawk/Both/Squid users ...
HCX - DReaD wrote:But on Squid's side, it's only effective on Stealth Phase ... Not-as-fair-enough, as Brute Phase takes more than half the battle most of the time.
This also happens with the Scanner, which has no extra abilities in the brute force phase. Similar to the Scanner, the Squid also allows more connections than it has program slots. Maybe the Squid could be 3 programs / 4 connections too?
HCX - DReaD wrote:Maybe add a utility for the Squid node to randomly stun captured nodes 3 connection within itself for x seconds in Brute Phase? Just another suggestion~
The design was intentionally kept simple, although there were quite a few suggestions to consider!
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those that can read binary, and those that cant.


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