Can we get an actual defence against shocker

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Hell_Diguner
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby Hell_Diguner » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:17 am

You said it yourself. White gates are best tackled with Protectors, not Shockers. Same for high level triple-Guardian Core. Both are pretty good defenses against somebody who focused only on Shockers and failed to upgrade their Protector and their Battering Ram.

And of course, this is the part where you say "and what if I do upgrade Shockers and Protectors and Rams?" Well that wasn't the topic of the discussion, now was it? The topic then, would be something like "can we get better defenses overall."

And to that I ask, would you really want some networks to be un-hackable? I sure wouldn't.

Instead, my beef is with farms and mines. Everyone in the end-game is starving because nobody with farms has survived long enough to reach the end-game. So hardly anyone is worth the time and b-coins to hack, and you certainly aren't going to generate a bunch of money with farms/mines and not have it stolen from you. Something needs to change so people who currently neglect their farms (in favor of a stronger offense and defense) start upgrading them. Then when they inevitably quit the game, they won't have super-strong networks that don't generate enough money/coins to be worth hacking.

And since quite few people have already quit the game and it's unlikely we'll see a huge influx of new players, those changes need to be retroactive somehow.
Hell_Diguner - C12L34, Had C12L29 (world record), soon to be a Shuriken main
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TheLurkingRage
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby TheLurkingRage » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:41 am

nocturnalbamf wrote:
TheLurkingRage wrote:Yes - and you have it. The community needs to stop asking for a defense against Shocker because you can already defend against it. Protectors are what need to be nerfed, not shockers.

You can defend against shockers by making time wasting chokes using your gates, guardian and core. Shockers are used to hack fast and don't last long in time wasting chokes, that's what protectors are for.


I use shockers and ice walls, how will this stop my shockers? my beams are level 20 so if it takes too long to break through, I set another shocker and re deploy the overwritten beam. The only need for protector is a white gate, in which I deploy two rams first and then throw down the beams once the gate is broken.


If the attacker is forced to use more than one Shocker per choke, then you're properly defending against Shocker. Same logic applies for Protectors and Battering Rams.
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nocturnalbamf
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby nocturnalbamf » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:30 pm

TheLurkingRage wrote:
nocturnalbamf wrote:
TheLurkingRage wrote:Yes - and you have it. The community needs to stop asking for a defense against Shocker because you can already defend against it. Protectors are what need to be nerfed, not shockers.

You can defend against shockers by making time wasting chokes using your gates, guardian and core. Shockers are used to hack fast and don't last long in time wasting chokes, that's what protectors are for.


I use shockers and ice walls, how will this stop my shockers? my beams are level 20 so if it takes too long to break through, I set another shocker and re deploy the overwritten beam. The only need for protector is a white gate, in which I deploy two rams first and then throw down the beams once the gate is broken.


If the attacker is forced to use more than one Shocker per choke, then you're properly defending against Shocker. Same logic applies for Protectors and Battering Rams.


Let me rephrase this, I don't redeploy the ice wall, I use 3 beams on a choke and drop a shocker saving my bit coins from my expensive protector and allowing me to use 3 beams instead of 2. The only time I need to redeploy a shocker is when I'm facing the core - guardian combo or if I try to brute through a white gate (rare now that my rams are up to 7). I usually only use 3 shockers but bring 7. AND my shockers are only lv 7 so they don't last as long as they could but since I'm smurfing, they will remain 7 for awhile.

In short, I love the shockers, they are pretty powerful, especially against min-max networks when used with beams.

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TheLurkingRage
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby TheLurkingRage » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:06 pm

Right... so your point is?
I love Shockers too.
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nocturnalbamf
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby nocturnalbamf » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:02 am

That shockers and shurikens aren't really special. A similar effect, if not better can be accomplished with shockers and beams.

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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby TheLurkingRage » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:25 am

There seems to be some sort of misunderstanding on the way Shurikens work. They inflict damage to all nearby nodes at the same time so in reality you're getting more DPS out of Shurikens than you would from Beams. They make you a faster hacker and immune to attack priorities, so you wouldn't get stuck using shocker on a gate choke inside a maelstrom for example.
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nocturnalbamf
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby nocturnalbamf » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:04 pm

Yea I believe the misunderstanding is on your side, I know how shurikens work. Just because you play every second of every day, doesn't mean everyone else is dumber than you at this game.

If shurikens were so good, how come I've only seen a total of 4 players using them, only 1 of which actually succeeded? IF they were good, I think I would see everyone using them but they are not. They are too easy to block, plus if you're good enough. Attack priorites doesn't slow you down that much. You would....should know this, since you have like 8 extra smurf accounts.

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Sibernetika
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby Sibernetika » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:15 am

Erm lurk has a point actually on the beams vs shurikens.. You can make a base defensive layout that completely messes with beams, but then that exact layout gets stomped by shurikens.. But there is no anti shuriken layout.. Shurikens go where they please.. Basically the same as a queen in the chess set
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nocturnalbamf
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby nocturnalbamf » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:54 am

If you guys say so, but Im not seeing it at all and I don't see anyone else using shurikens soooo...this one is from Zimbabwe too :lol:

For the record, the levels were Shurikens 17, Ice Wall 4, Protector 13 and Ram 9.
Shurikens.jpg
Shurikens.jpg (124.55 KiB) Viewed 236 times


Also, my phone makes very large picture files so I had to crop and resize to just get available to upload....ridiculous.

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TheLurkingRage
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby TheLurkingRage » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:20 am

nocturnalbamf wrote:I know how shurikens work. Just because you play every second of every day, doesn't mean everyone else is dumber than you at this game.

Well you are too inexperienced to know what you're talking about and this is just one more post of yours that proves it, so... it does indeed make you "dumber" than me if by that you meant "less knowledgeable", unless you literally just wanted to insult yourself.

nocturnalbamf wrote:If shurikens were so good, how come I've only seen a total of 4 players using them, only 1 of which actually succeeded? IF they were good, I think I would see everyone using them but they are not.

That is due to inexperience and lack of skill... also due to the fact some want to avoid level inflation as much as possible and many don't realize the true power of Shurikens until they've nearly maxed out the noob Cannons, so they'd rather stick with them.
nocturnalbamf wrote:They are too easy to block, plus if you're good enough. Attack priorites doesn't slow you down that much. You would....should know this, since you have like 8 extra smurf accounts.

I don't see what having multiple accounts has to do with this. Depending on what network you're up against and your program levels is what determines how much attack priorities will slow you down. Stick to noob Cannons if you so please, but fact remains that Shurikens are superior and your ignorance doesn't change that - so OP in fact, that LadTy once said he wants to finally nerf them since they're becoming more and more popular thanks to our efforts at helping the community realize their potential.
DEATH TO SMURFS! >:)

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