Can we get an actual defence against shocker

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PerseVerAnce
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby PerseVerAnce » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:43 am

TheLurkingRage wrote:Might as well say "level 1 Wraith will beat both a level 1 and 21 Code Gate in just 2 seconds, where as a level 1 Battering Ram can't, so therefore all you need is a level 1 Wraith". The Shocker is powerful, but you can defend against it by slowing down the attacker, not throwing all your security power into one node - that's rather wasteful against shockers. Same way you defend against stealth by using Code Gates to your advantage so they can't take out your main source of defense - your sentries. You wouldn't place your sentries in front of your code gates and expect to successfully defend against stealth, would you? You also wouldn't make your network full of skippable chokes and expect to defend against Shurikens. Well much like in these examples, it's just as nonsensical to complain about not being able to defend against shockers when what you're doing is defending against protectors - which require different defensive strategies to "counter".



Except if you try to defend against Shockers using stall strategies, it gets countered by Protectors.
Not using any skippable choke is better vs Shuriken, but offer much less stategic option vs Beams.
So what would you do then?
Last edited by PerseVerAnce on Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby TheLurkingRage » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:52 am

TheLurkingRage wrote:Reply 1:
Mchief wrote:The problem I have is that fact that there is no defence that can block shocker, only slightly slow it down, I lost 800k this morning to a guy who brought lvl 21 beam, 16 ice wall, and 14 shocker , didn't even need to use protectors my defences got zaped and then taken down before the zap was over.


That should be a compliment to your network if anything. Shockers are programs used to take on hard networks and the fact that an attacker had to use 14 shockers to hack you, should indicate 1 of 2 things: How strong your base is or how garbage the hacker is. Replace those 14 shockers (84 disk space) for 15 Protectors and 2 extra ICE Walls (Same disk space) and that would mean they had to place down a protector on nearly every intersection, choke point or not, for them to stand a chance or use a ton of protectors in certain choke points etc.
On a level 4 Compiler that hack cost him a compile time of 36 minutes for the Shockers and ICE Walls alone which is more than my compile time to hit the hardest bases in the game (players like B@t$, Haxk, Festr, myself on either Azussa or TheLurkingRage, Lorin, and many more) which like I said, indicates your base is hard to hack, or he's not a good hacker. My average compile time is 30m and even though I carry Stealth and Shockers, I don't need to use stealth (including data leeches), Shockers or double Ram Gates to hack Lorin's network for example, because despite recently becoming one of the hardest bases in the game, I've the necessary experience to not need to rely on more powerful programs to hack his network. For B@t$, Haxk or Festr I don't need to do use stealth or double Ram their Gates either, but a shocker or two in their strong choke points help keep the rhythm intact in their split networks which are tough to hack with only level 13 Protectors. There are times when I make mistakes, run out of ICE Walls and/or are running low on time and that's where the Shockers and Leeches come into play. Stealth and shockers also come in handy when hitting a really juicy target with max loot up for grabs - I typically use them in those cases which are rare in my case.

Mind posting a screenshot of your network and the player's loadout during that hack? To better judge the reason they used that many shockers.

Reply 2:
Uhm...
PerseVerAnce wrote:Level 1 Ram will break a Level 1 Code Gates way faster than a Level 21 Battering Ram.
wut? I'll assume you meant to say a level 21 Code Gate, otherwise wtf lol.

PerseVerAnce wrote:But a Level 1 Shocker will last the same amount of time vs a Level 21 Turret as it would vs a Level 1 Turret.
So because of this, a mid level Shocker is enough to take out even Level 21 Security Nodes, whereas a similar level Ice Wall or Protector would struggle.

Might as well say "level 1 Wraith will beat both a level 1 and 21 Code Gate in just 2 seconds, where as a level 1 Battering Ram can't, so therefore all you need is a level 1 Wraith". The Shocker is powerful, but you can defend against it by slowing down the attacker, not throwing all your security power into one node - that's rather wasteful against shockers. Same way you defend against stealth by using Code Gates to your advantage so they can't take out your main source of defense - your sentries. You wouldn't place your sentries in front of your code gates and expect to successfully defend against stealth, would you? You also wouldn't make your network full of skippable chokes and expect to defend against Shurikens. Well much like in these examples, it's just as nonsensical to complain about not being able to defend against shockers when what you're doing is defending against protectors - which require different defensive strategies to "counter".

PVA, you know I had one of the worst starts having started off as a farmer, stealther and Shocker spammer only inflating my level and limiting my knowledge, experience and skill in the game. Everyone that complains about not being able to defend against Stealth(in mid game), Shurikens and/or Shockers lacks both offensive and defensive experience regarding those programs. It's the same way that you struggle to make great maelstroms and defend against Shurikens. You don't think like a ninja when trying to defend against them, so you can't. For the same reasons If you don't understand how a stealther or Shocker spammer thinks, then you won't be able to put up a good fight against them.
...Maybe it's time for some guides and tutorials...
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby Hell_Diguner » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:01 pm

At the end of the day, there's always someone out there who can defeat your network. That is simply the nature of the game's offense and defense power curves. It's up to you to decide what program levels and skillsets your opponent must have to break your network. That's why the "meta" once you get beyond a certain level is to steal as much money as possible in your 3 hours "online immunity" timeframe, and then spend it before you log off.
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby PerseVerAnce » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:10 pm

In my opinion, the 3 hour time frame is a result of a limitation of the game's programming as opposed to actually being a part of the game.

That is to say, I believe that the game is originally designed with the intention that you should actually have to defend your network using good layouts, as opposed to simply staying online so people can't hack you at all. Otherwise, what is the point of designing a network at all? What is there to play?

The fact that people are relying on the timer is more of a consequence of poor scaling and balancing than anything else.

Unless the devs say otherwise?
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby Trickster » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:12 am

PerseVerAnce wrote: the game is originally designed with the intention that you should actually have to defend your network using good layouts, as opposed to simply staying online so people can't hack you at all.


Yes, the very most of players do not bother to exploit the timer. They build, refine and progress. On top ranks though it is a quite different situation.

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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby Hell_Diguner » Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:50 am

"The majority" of players quit before they reach level 40. Quitting before the endgame is quite normal for F2P games.
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby Mchief » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:56 pm

Any chance we could get back on target with the whole let's get something to defend against shocker . I do t k ow of any defences that's will work against 18 lvl 14 shockers any more , one program should not be that power full.

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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby TheLurkingRage » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:26 pm

Again, 18 shockers is a lot. If someone needs to use that many shockers on your network, then you can take pride in knowing your network is hard to hack for that player.

Quote from my reply to this post: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1478
Here I talked about how you could fix the shocker spammer problem without "nerfing" the program in the traditional sense. Read the thread for context on my suggestion and reasoning.

...an anti spam measurement like once you use it the program locks up and recharges before you can use it again (make the recharge take as long as the effect does)...you're not making it less effective on the node its being used in, you're just making it so hackers would be forced to use it where it really matters and not on every node they capture, where they should be using ICE Walls instead...
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby Mchief » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:20 am

TheLurkingRage wrote:Again, 18 shockers is a lot. If someone needs to use that many shockers on your network, then you can take pride in knowing your network is hard to hack for that player.

Quote from my reply to this post: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1478
Here I talked about how you could fix the shocker spammer problem without "nerfing" the program in the traditional sense. Read the thread for context on my suggestion and reasoning.

...an anti spam measurement like once you use it the program locks up and recharges before you can use it again (make the recharge take as long as the effect does)...you're not making it less effective on the node its being used in, you're just making it so hackers would be forced to use it where it really matters and not on every node they capture, where they should be using ICE Walls instead...

Thx rage but no matter how good it makes me feel that hackers have to use broken methodes to hack me it's squashed by the fact that I never get to use more than 20% of the resources I ever have, as it stands they may be in my bank but anyone can take them , and they are allways spent before I can hack them back.

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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby nocturnalbamf » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:28 pm

TheLurkingRage wrote:Yes - and you have it. The community needs to stop asking for a defense against Shocker because you can already defend against it. Protectors are what need to be nerfed, not shockers.

You can defend against shockers by making time wasting chokes using your gates, guardian and core. Shockers are used to hack fast and don't last long in time wasting chokes, that's what protectors are for.


I use shockers and ice walls, how will this stop my shockers? my beams are level 20 so if it takes too long to break through, I set another shocker and re deploy the overwritten beam. The only need for protector is a white gate, in which I deploy two rams first and then throw down the beams once the gate is broken.


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