Can we get an actual defence against shocker

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Mchief
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Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby Mchief » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:54 pm

Pretty simple request , I bleed 1-2 million credits a day now due to one reason , it's called shocker or bringing 20 of them, with medium level upgrades they stop all connected nodes for around 8 seconds allowing there beams to roast my defences with out any actual defence.

Can I have some actual defence capacity against this program ?

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TheLurkingRage
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby TheLurkingRage » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:52 pm

Yes - and you have it. The community needs to stop asking for a defense against Shocker because you can already defend against it. Protectors are what need to be nerfed, not shockers.

You can defend against shockers by making time wasting chokes using your gates, guardian and core. Shockers are used to hack fast and don't last long in time wasting chokes, that's what protectors are for.
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Sibernetika
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby Sibernetika » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:28 am

Lurk 4 that that you just need 2 shockers, if it takes longer than 16 seconds to get through 1 choke point then you need to upgrade your viruses, but when you come to a stage where shocker knocks out your nodes for 8 seconds I'm pretty sure that the offensive nodes or at least beams and ram is pretty high level
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Mchief
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby Mchief » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:37 am

TheLurkingRage wrote:Yes - and you have it. The community needs to stop asking for a defense against Shocker because you can already defend against it. Protectors are what need to be nerfed, not shockers.

You can defend against shockers by making time wasting chokes using your gates, guardian and core. Shockers are used to hack fast and don't last long in time wasting chokes, that's what protectors are for.

Sadly with a single shocker at mid level lasting 8 seconds on every attached node choke points no longer apply, take the choke toss a shocker then 3 beams and the point is broken before they come back up, or if they have guardian shields just use a shocker every 7 seconds and your good, the fact that you can bring 20 of them doesn't hurt, ow wait it just means that every defence is useless as it's zapped before it puts out any real damage.

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PerseVerAnce
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby PerseVerAnce » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:28 am

TheLurkingRage wrote:Yes - and you have it. The community needs to stop asking for a defense against Shocker because you can already defend against it. Protectors are what need to be nerfed, not shockers.

You can defend against shockers by making time wasting chokes using your gates, guardian and core. Shockers are used to hack fast and don't last long in time wasting chokes, that's what protectors are for.


You can defend against Protectors too. Protectors don't last long in the presence of lv 21 security nodes focus firing. But it is easily negated by shockers half its level.

Neither shocker nor protector by themselves are a problem. It's when you have both then it rekts all defenses.

Strictly speaking, shockers are fine in time wasting chokes too since you can carry so many of them. Since the disable effect overwrites itself, just bring enough and keep nodes permanently shocked.
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Mchief
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby Mchief » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:29 pm

PerseVerAnce wrote:
TheLurkingRage wrote:Yes - and you have it. The community needs to stop asking for a defense against Shocker because you can already defend against it. Protectors are what need to be nerfed, not shockers.

You can defend against shockers by making time wasting chokes using your gates, guardian and core. Shockers are used to hack fast and don't last long in time wasting chokes, that's what protectors are for.


You can defend against Protectors too. Protectors don't last long in the presence of lv 21 security nodes focus firing. But it is easily negated by shockers half its level.

Neither shocker nor protector by themselves are a problem. It's when you have both then it rekts all defenses.

Strictly speaking, shockers are fine in time wasting chokes too since you can carry so many of them. Since the disable effect overwrites itself, just bring enough and keep nodes permanently shocked.

The problem I have is that fact that there is no defence that can block shocker, only slightly slow it down, I lost 800k this morning to a guy who brought lvl 21 beam, 16 ice wall, and 14 shocker , didn't even need to use protectors my defences got zaped and then taken down before the zap was over.

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PerseVerAnce
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby PerseVerAnce » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:42 pm

Mchief wrote:The problem I have is that fact that there is no defence that can block shocker, only slightly slow it down, I lost 800k this morning to a guy who brought lvl 21 beam, 16 ice wall, and 14 shocker , didn't even need to use protectors my defences got zaped and then taken down before the zap was over.


I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me.


If you ask me, main reason shockers are so strong is because that it's unaffected by the level of the node it's used against. This is unlike all other programs.

Level 1 Beam will hack a Level 1 Turret way faster than a Level 21 Turret.
Level 1 Ram will break a Level 1 Code Gates way faster than a Level 21 Battering Ram.
Level 1 Ice Wall will last way longer vs a Level 1 Turret than a Level 21 Turret.
Level 1 Protector will last way longer vs a Level 1 Turret than a Level 21 Turret.

But a Level 1 Shocker will last the same amount of time vs a Level 21 Turret as it would vs a Level 1 Turret.
So because of this, a mid level Shocker is enough to take out even Level 21 Security Nodes, whereas a similar level Ice Wall or Protector would struggle.
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby Luminaar » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:02 pm

PerseVerAnce wrote:If you ask me, main reason shockers are so strong is because that it's unaffected by the level of the node it's used against.
While this certainly makes sense (and I've added it as a potential possibility - thanks) I can see the resulting bug reports from this, saying "the Shocker says X seconds but only lasts Y." :D

For my 2 cents to the conversation, I'd have a hard limit to the number of shocker programs you're allowed to take.
Maybe 'Roundup(Shocker Level / 2)' for a max of 11, or maybe even a smaller amount '1 + Rounddown(Shocker Level /3)' for a max of 8 per attack.
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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby crack » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:41 pm

Once again perseverance comes forward with most sensible answer great insight.

[quote="PerseVerAnce"]If you ask me, main reason shockers are so strong is because that it's unaffected by the level of the node it's used against "
Neither of these!!! Pay 2 Win /Smurf /Minmaxer :shock: Definitely these!!! 0$ dude/ TP/ RHG/Play by the ROE/Friendly/& an ass *donkey) lol

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Re: Can we get an actual defence against shocker

Postby TheLurkingRage » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:11 am

Reply 1:
Mchief wrote:The problem I have is that fact that there is no defence that can block shocker, only slightly slow it down, I lost 800k this morning to a guy who brought lvl 21 beam, 16 ice wall, and 14 shocker , didn't even need to use protectors my defences got zaped and then taken down before the zap was over.


That should be a compliment to your network if anything. Shockers are programs used to take on hard networks and the fact that an attacker had to use 14 shockers to hack you, should indicate 1 of 2 things: How strong your base is or how garbage the hacker is. Replace those 14 shockers (84 disk space) for 15 Protectors and 2 extra ICE Walls (Same disk space) and that would mean they had to place down a protector on nearly every intersection, choke point or not, for them to stand a chance or use a ton of protectors in certain choke points etc.
On a level 4 Compiler that hack cost him a compile time of 36 minutes for the Shockers and ICE Walls alone which is more than my compile time to hit the hardest bases in the game (players like B@t$, Haxk, Festr, myself on either Azussa or TheLurkingRage, Lorin, and many more) which like I said, indicates your base is hard to hack, or he's not a good hacker. My average compile time is 30m and even though I carry Stealth and Shockers, I don't need to use stealth (including data leeches), Shockers or double Ram Gates to hack Lorin's network for example, because despite recently becoming one of the hardest bases in the game, I've the necessary experience to not need to rely on more powerful programs to hack his network. For B@t$, Haxk or Festr I don't need to use stealth or double Ram their Gates either, but a shocker or two in their strong choke points help keep the rhythm intact in their split networks which are tough to hack with only level 13 Protectors. There are times when I make mistakes or run out of ICE Walls, of course and that's where the shockers and leeches come into play. Stealth and shockers also come in handy when hitting a really juicy target with max loot up for grabs - I typically use them in those cases which are rare in my case.

Mind posting a screenshot of your network and the player's load out during that hack? To better judge the reason they used that many shockers.

Reply 2:
Uhm...
PerseVerAnce wrote:Level 1 Ram will break a Level 1 Code Gates way faster than a Level 21 Battering Ram.
wut? I'll assume you meant to say a level 21 Code Gate, otherwise wtf lol.

PerseVerAnce wrote:But a Level 1 Shocker will last the same amount of time vs a Level 21 Turret as it would vs a Level 1 Turret.
So because of this, a mid level Shocker is enough to take out even Level 21 Security Nodes, whereas a similar level Ice Wall or Protector would struggle.

Might as well say "level 1 Wraith will beat both a level 1 and 21 Code Gate in just 2 seconds, where as a level 1 Battering Ram can't, so therefore all you need is a level 1 Wraith". The Shocker is powerful, but you can defend against it by slowing down the attacker, not throwing all your security power into one node - that's rather wasteful against shockers. Same way you defend against stealth by using Code Gates to your advantage so they can't take out your main source of defense - your sentries. You wouldn't place your sentries in front of your code gates and expect to successfully defend against stealth, would you? You also wouldn't make your network full of skippable chokes and expect to defend against Shurikens. Well much like in these examples, it's just as nonsensical to complain about not being able to defend against shockers when what you're doing is defending against protectors - which require different defensive strategies to "counter".

PVA, you know I had one of the worst starts having started off as a farmer, stealther and Shocker spammer only inflating my level and limiting my knowledge, experience and skill in the game. Everyone that complains about not being able to defend against Stealth(in mid game), Shurikens and/or Shockers lacks both offensive and defensive experience regarding those programs. It's the same way that you struggle to make great maelstroms and defend against Shurikens. You don't think like a ninja when trying to defend against them, so you can't. For the same reasons If you don't understand how a stealther or Shocker spammer thinks, then you won't be able to put up a good fight against them.
...Maybe it's time for some guides and tutorials...
Last edited by TheLurkingRage on Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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